Knights Out

[Vegas Golden Knights GM]

I think all of you are aware by now of the situation that transpired between myself and another member. As somebody who's had to deal with racism for most of my life, continuing to allow a member who made racist and homophobic remarks, as well as joking about committing suicide has made this site a place that I don't want to be apart of. Quite frankly, I've become very uninterested in the league as a whole since the whole situation transpired.

That being said, I will be stepping down as the GM of the Knights and wish all of you the best.

[Colorado Avalanche GM]

Hate to see you go buddy. You are one of a kind and have become a great friend over the years. I hope to see you around on the other sites so we can still pull off some crazy long trade negotiations. Take care

[Chicago Blackhawks GM]

At this point ban me. I don't deserve to be here. I am just happy I learned to not say words like that and I wont say it again. I might be ban but its well deserved and the most important is that i learned a lesson.

[Player Representative]

I will address this when I have a proper amount of time to do so. I would like to speak to both of you collectively to see if a resolution can be reached. I can't speak for understanding racist comments being said to me personally, but I can speak for making mistakes, including homophobic language, at his age. I can also speak for mental health and know those suicide comments reflect more on the person saying it than being offended by it. We took that seriously in that situation and wanted to ensure CHI was doing okay.

I understand he is not the victim in this case, but we felt having the member learn and improve was an ideal way to go about this, if possible. We hoped to make that possible and hope that the member hasn't said anything since the incident.

[hansmoleman]

Did anyone ask Joubran whether he was cool with this guy being allowed back? Because that most definitely takes precedent over someone using racist and homophobic language in 2021 “learning a lesson”. I sincerely don’t understand what the lesson here was. That there are no consequences for behaving that way?

Joubran feeling like he has to leave over this and the way it was handled is a disgrace and it’s a bad look for all of us.

[Chicago Blackhawks GM]

Mar 11, 2021 8:32:33 GMT -8 Player Representative said:

I will address this when I have a proper amount of time to do so. I would like to speak to both of you collectively to see if a resolution can be reached. I can't speak for understanding racist comments being said to me personally, but I can speak for making mistakes, including homophobic language, at his age. I can also speak for mental health and know those suicide comments reflect more on the person saying it than being offended by it. We took that seriously in that situation and wanted to ensure CHI was doing okay.

I understand he is not the victim in this case, but we felt having the member learn and improve was an ideal way to go about this, if possible. We hoped to make that possible and hope that the member hasn't said anything since the incident.

I didn't say it since then and I wont say it. You can ask every member of every league and all my friend.

[Vancouver Canucks GM]

Mar 11, 2021 9:15:38 GMT -8 hansmoleman said:

Did anyone ask Joubran whether he was cool with this guy being allowed back? Because that most definitely takes precedent over someone using racist and homophobic language in 2021 “learning a lesson”. I sincerely don’t understand what the lesson here was. That there are no consequences for behaving that way?

Joubran feeling like he has to leave over this and the way it was handled is a disgrace and it’s a bad look for all of us.

I know in Ironman we banned him cuz in our group chat Joubran didn’t want him there as he didn’t feel comfortable so we decided as a group to step in and not allow him there. Hockleague didn’t do anything. We decided at Ironman to do it cuz Joub is a valuable person to our community just like when snag got banned at hockleague and everyone stepped up for him we decided to do that at Ironman for Joub. I know retro is a young guy and is most likely immature and I hope he learns from this lesson and I hope crank Joub and retro can come to some terms to get Joub back here cuz these leagues aren’t the same with out him

[Chicago Blackhawks GM]

Mar 11, 2021 11:14:40 GMT -8 Vancouver Canucks GM said:

Mar 11, 2021 9:15:38 GMT -8 hansmoleman said:

Did anyone ask Joubran whether he was cool with this guy being allowed back? Because that most definitely takes precedent over someone using racist and homophobic language in 2021 “learning a lesson”. I sincerely don’t understand what the lesson here was. That there are no consequences for behaving that way?

Joubran feeling like he has to leave over this and the way it was handled is a disgrace and it’s a bad look for all of us.

I know in Ironman we banned him cuz in our group chat Joubran didn’t want him there as he didn’t feel comfortable so we decided as a group to step in and not allow him there. Hockleague didn’t do anything. We decided at Ironman to do it cuz Joub is a valuable person to our community just like when snag got banned at hockleague and everyone stepped up for him we decided to do that at Ironman for Joub. I know retro is a young guy and is most likely immature and I hope he learns from this lesson and I hope crank Joub and retro can come to some terms to get Joub back here cuz these leagues aren’t the same with out him

I really realise that what i did is just something that you dont do. I wrote an appolgie to Joub a mont ago on rock em to appologie but he didn't forgive me and I understand. I said some words who arent appropraite and ik that, I am not a bad kind, I just had a bad day and I REALLY didnt use the good words. But now ik that this should not be said and I didnt say 1 bad word since then and I promise I wont say it ever again.

[Toronto Maple Leafs GM]

Chicago is what, 13 years old or something like that?

I think most of us can attest to being stupid, young and not exactly socially aware of what we say and do before we turned into the 20's and beyond.

It's a teaching moment and a lesson. Those type of comments continue to perpetuate society however banning and getting rid of someone for saying it is only going to foster and harbor those thoughts further. The more you censor and remove somebody, the further they'll continue to think "they're right." By all accounts, it seems like Chi-town has some awareness of how unacceptable those types of comments are and seems to approach things a little differently. I think it's an important lesson for him to learn and I think it's the right move to keep him on these sites as it should allow him to continue to grow as an individual as he gets older.

This isn't to excuse the actions of someone. It just seems he hasn't buckled down on his thoughts and is willing to self-reflect. We often learn from others who share different opinions to ours.

Now it's totally up to Joubran to leave. I don't think he's right in his decision, though. I think he's being a little dramatic here but it's his choice.

[Chicago Blackhawks GM]

He is not dramatic at all, I said unacceptable words, but all this story makes me learn a big lesson and that I can really swear. I also won't tell this innapropriate words anymore, cause it's just racist and I dont want to be that kind of person, I don't hate blacks and I am not racist, I have a lot of black friend so I wont use this words, I also have nothing against gays too.

[Arizona Coyotes GM]

Mar 11, 2021 14:34:37 GMT -8 Toronto Maple Leafs GM said:

Chicago is what, 13 years old or something like that?

I think most of us can attest to being stupid, young and not exactly socially aware of what we say and do before we turned into the 20's and beyond.

It's a teaching moment and a lesson. Those type of comments continue to perpetuate society however banning and getting rid of someone for saying it is only going to foster and harbor those thoughts further. The more you censor and remove somebody, the further they'll continue to think "they're right." By all accounts, it seems like Chi-town has some awareness of how unacceptable those types of comments are and seems to approach things a little differently. I think it's an important lesson for him to learn and I think it's the right move to keep him on these sites as it should allow him to continue to grow as an individual as he gets older.

This isn't to excuse the actions of someone. It just seems he hasn't buckled down on his thoughts and is willing to self-reflect. We often learn from others who share different opinions to ours.

Now it's totally up to Joubran to leave. I don't think he's right in his decision, though. I think he's being a little dramatic here but it's his choice.

hmm i dont like the last line here. Who are you too comment on how someone feels? Maybe he has some person experiences that this triggers? How do you know? Also, who are you to judge Joubs decisions. If the site doesnt want to ban retro, fine. But don't start judging Joub here. Thats bush league. After racist and other comments, maybe he doesnt feel comfortable to be in a situation where this guy can contact him. 

[Chicago Blackhawks GM]

true, but i wont contact him

[Arizona Coyotes GM]

Mar 11, 2021 14:55:48 GMT -8 Chicago Blackhawks GM said:

true, but i wont contact him

I am not saying you would, I also am not speaking for Joub. Just don't agree with Leafs judging Joubs decision

[Vegas Golden Knights GM]

Mar 11, 2021 14:34:37 GMT -8 Toronto Maple Leafs GM said:

Chicago is what, 13 years old or something like that?

I think most of us can attest to being stupid, young and not exactly socially aware of what we say and do before we turned into the 20's and beyond.

It's a teaching moment and a lesson. Those type of comments continue to perpetuate society however banning and getting rid of someone for saying it is only going to foster and harbor those thoughts further. The more you censor and remove somebody, the further they'll continue to think "they're right." By all accounts, it seems like Chi-town has some awareness of how unacceptable those types of comments are and seems to approach things a little differently. I think it's an important lesson for him to learn and I think it's the right move to keep him on these sites as it should allow him to continue to grow as an individual as he gets older.

This isn't to excuse the actions of someone. It just seems he hasn't buckled down on his thoughts and is willing to self-reflect. We often learn from others who share different opinions to ours.

Now it's totally up to Joubran to leave. I don't think he's right in his decision, though. I think he's being a little dramatic here but it's his choice.

A little dramatic eh?

I’ve been called a terrorist because I’m an Arab many times, whether it was in school or playing hockey so I can’t stand any type of racist remark.

I have a family member who attempted to commit suicide so him threatening to commit suicide if he was banned and then telling another member that “he always says that” was not something I would take lightly.

And on top of that he makes a homophobic remark which I also take personally because I have multiple family members who have had to deal with homophobia.

You think I’m being dramatic? Fuck you dude.

[Chicago Blackhawks GM]

Damn that's a lot I am sorry Joub, this words are really not appropriate and I promise not only to noy uou all you that but also to every people in the word, I am rlly rlly sorry. Ik its not a good behavior, I learned a big lesson I wont call you that again.

[Toronto Maple Leafs GM]

Mar 11, 2021 15:12:59 GMT -8 Vegas Golden Knights GM said:

Mar 11, 2021 14:34:37 GMT -8 Toronto Maple Leafs GM said:

Chicago is what, 13 years old or something like that?

I think most of us can attest to being stupid, young and not exactly socially aware of what we say and do before we turned into the 20's and beyond.

It's a teaching moment and a lesson. Those type of comments continue to perpetuate society however banning and getting rid of someone for saying it is only going to foster and harbor those thoughts further. The more you censor and remove somebody, the further they'll continue to think "they're right." By all accounts, it seems like Chi-town has some awareness of how unacceptable those types of comments are and seems to approach things a little differently. I think it's an important lesson for him to learn and I think it's the right move to keep him on these sites as it should allow him to continue to grow as an individual as he gets older.

This isn't to excuse the actions of someone. It just seems he hasn't buckled down on his thoughts and is willing to self-reflect. We often learn from others who share different opinions to ours.

Now it's totally up to Joubran to leave. I don't think he's right in his decision, though. I think he's being a little dramatic here but it's his choice.

A little dramatic eh?

I’ve been called a terrorist because I’m an Arab many times, whether it was in school or playing hockey so I can’t stand any type of racist remark.

I have a family member who attempted to commit suicide so him threatening to commit suicide if he was banned and then telling another member that “he always says that” was not something I would take lightly.

And on top of that he makes a homophobic remark which I also take personally because I have multiple family members who have had to deal with homophobia.

You think I’m being dramatic? Fuck you dude.

Do you avoid your workplace that undoubtedly has someone who is racist or homohobic or has no understanding of mental health issues? Or do you take that opportunity and teach everyone about why it's incorrect, why it's harmful, why it's wrong and why there's no place for it? 

The guy is young, naive and admittedly, stupid. You leaving isn't going to help continue to shed the light, educate and inform everyone on important issues such as these. By removing yourself from these platforms, you remove your voice and opportunity to promote what has made you, your family and others around you stronger and more knowledgeable around these (very important) social issues. By all accounts, it was a one-off. Our sim worlds are not filled with racists, bigots and homophobes. You are surrounded by people who support you and want to help change the opinion of a young member. 

Alas, you made a public post about you leaving. You made it out to be a "me vs. him." So yes, dramatic. 

[Vegas Golden Knights GM]

Mar 11, 2021 15:36:54 GMT -8 Toronto Maple Leafs GM said:

Mar 11, 2021 15:12:59 GMT -8 Vegas Golden Knights GM said:

A little dramatic eh?

I’ve been called a terrorist because I’m an Arab many times, whether it was in school or playing hockey so I can’t stand any type of racist remark.

I have a family member who attempted to commit suicide so him threatening to commit suicide if he was banned and then telling another member that “he always says that” was not something I would take lightly.

And on top of that he makes a homophobic remark which I also take personally because I have multiple family members who have had to deal with homophobia.

You think I’m being dramatic? Fuck you dude.

Do you avoid your workplace that undoubtedly has someone who is racist or homohobic or has no understanding of mental health issues? Or do you take that opportunity and teach everyone about why it's incorrect, why it's harmful, why it's wrong and why there's no place for it? 

The guy is young, naive and admittedly, stupid. You leaving isn't going to help continue to shed the light, educate and inform everyone on important issues such as these. By removing yourself from these platforms, you remove your voice and opportunity to promote what has made you, your family and others around you stronger and more knowledgeable around these (very important) social issues. By all accounts, it was a one-off. Our sim worlds are not filled with racists, bigots and homophobes. You are surrounded by people who support you and want to help change the opinion of a young member. 

Alas, you made a public post about you leaving. You made it out to be a "me vs. him." So yes, dramatic. 

We’ve had those people and those people have been fired. The fact is his apologies are only to save his own ass and y’all fell for it and welcomed him back with open arms.

He said he didn’t know what the n-word was and yet when I called him out on it the first time he sent it to me he said “I’m black” so clearly he knew what the word meant. I just wish I screenshot it before he deleted the message.

I have zero time to deal with a moronic idiot in my dms saying stupid shit and quite frankly want no association with people that allow that same person to still exist in on this site.

But yes, call me dramatic for not wanting to spend my free time in the same place as a racist piece of shit.

[fisk33n]

Mar 15, 2021 11:43:01 GMT -8 Vegas Golden Knights GM said:

Mar 11, 2021 15:36:54 GMT -8 Toronto Maple Leafs GM said:

Do you avoid your workplace that undoubtedly has someone who is racist or homohobic or has no understanding of mental health issues? Or do you take that opportunity and teach everyone about why it's incorrect, why it's harmful, why it's wrong and why there's no place for it? 

The guy is young, naive and admittedly, stupid. You leaving isn't going to help continue to shed the light, educate and inform everyone on important issues such as these. By removing yourself from these platforms, you remove your voice and opportunity to promote what has made you, your family and others around you stronger and more knowledgeable around these (very important) social issues. By all accounts, it was a one-off. Our sim worlds are not filled with racists, bigots and homophobes. You are surrounded by people who support you and want to help change the opinion of a young member. 

Alas, you made a public post about you leaving. You made it out to be a "me vs. him." So yes, dramatic. 

We’ve had those people and those people have been fired. The fact is his apologies are only to save his own ass and y’all fell for it and welcomed him back with open arms.

He said he didn’t know what the n-word was and yet when I called him out on it the first time he sent it to me he said “I’m black” so clearly he knew what the word meant. I just wish I screenshot it before he deleted the message.

I have zero time to deal with a moronic idiot in my dms saying stupid shit and quite frankly want no association with people that allow that same person to still exist in on this site.

But yes, call me dramatic for not wanting to spend my free time in the same place as a racist piece of shit.

I am sorry that you have had to live thru all of that rasist, homophobic shit already.

I grew up with a gay father in the 90s, then it was not as Open and stuf as it is today. Made me have a Hard childhood, and made me go crazy and f*ck shit and People up during my teenage years.

However, Chi is only 13 or something (what I can tell from others comments).
When you are around that age, you dont think that much before you speek. And when it Comes to the internet, you think even less.(nomather the age, People just get stupid on internet)

He did one wrong (a BIG one yes), but to let him Come back after an open apoligy and to be given a second chance and learn from his mistake. That is how we evolve the less smart people, If we punish them by exile everywhere for one mistake. They will never learn and then we are no better either.  

At the same time I understand If it is Hard for you, and If you feel like you have to Leave bevouse of this. Then you do that, no one can say what is the best for you, except you.

[Deleted]

Will miss you MJ, sorry this is something you have to endure